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Scott's avatar

Finally! Someone who is as bewildered by the arguments against immortality as I am. All these arguments assume a kind of telos, unwilling to face head-on the consideration that time may really only be just one damn thing after another, moments tenuously stitched together in ways that may be factitious and arbitrary.

There's a tension between the idea that meaning is something that is constrained by time, that eternity renders all experience meaningless (everything is repeated into eternity, eventually wears itself out into mere noise), but that evanescence also renders life meaningless (since everything created, experienced during a life is interrupted mid-stream, then eventually disappears without a trace).

But if you see meaningfulness as something that is immanent in an experience, meaningful at the moment it is experienced, what more do you need? Whether it lasts forever or disappears tomorrow is irrelevant, it's the experience of meaning that counts. Here's a passage I read recently that expresses that line of thought:

"On a recent retreat, I was beside a river early one morning and a rower passed. I watched the boat slip by and enjoyed the beauty in a radically new way. The moment was sufficient; there was nothing I wanted to add or take away—no thought of how I wanted to do this every day, or how I wanted to learn to row, or how I wished I was in the boat. Nothing but the pleasure of witnessing it."

Dying in the middle of that moment, dying tomorrow, or never dying, does nothing to change the meaningfulness of that experienced moment. Camus makes this argument in _The Myth of Sisyphus_: that meaningfulness in life is nothing more or less than meaning you invest in a moment as you experience it, and that is enough. Sisyphus cheats his punishment, and like Borges's immortals, can contentedly pass the time for eternity in contemplation of the meaning of the moments that make it up.

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Khalid Mir's avatar

I need to go back to Jonas on immortality but could I just ask, Kieran: do these philosophers consider the religious perspective (I know Scheffler doesn't in his 'afterlife')?

From the outside it does seem a bit like: well, there isn't a God or afterlife, so let's think about why we wouldn't want immortality anyway.

Personally, I think the loss of the "second space" (Milosz) haunts modernity.

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